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Prenup - I prepare for marriage, he preps for divorce

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Posted on January 15,2014

My french bofriend of 2 years had asked my hand for marriage. We both love each other, both in our 30's, single, stable and ready for having a family together.

Although we do not need to get married to be together, which we both like very much to happen for the rest of our lives, we choose to anyway because I primarily want to, and for him, he cannot have me legally stay here in France without this.

However, there's a hitch, he wants a prenup and I don't. Here's why we differ.

He is French and has considerably more assets than me. In France, more than half of the marriages end up in Divorce. In most divorce cases, it is usually the woman who initiates it. His mother left him and his father when he was 9 years old. More to that, his parents are now happily with other people, and yet not married still, even after retirement...

On my part, I come from Philippines, the only country left which doesn't have a divorce. In the absence of divorce, people who need to be separated either get annulments or just separate without the legalities, but there is no option for remarriage under this. However, only 1.0% of our population identified themselves as separated. My parents had celebrated 30 years of happy marriage, and I've witnessed the rocky slopes and the times when my mother wanted to live, but didn't. This worked out ultimately for all of family in the end.

Coming from such different backgrounds, we need to compromise. But I hesitate to enter discussions with french lawyers about which percentage of the assets he can retain in case we get divorced. First, i will not be represented here, coming from a country with no divorce laws.

But more importantly, my primary reason for not agreeing to all of this is becuase of it's potential to damage our marraige even before it began.I fear treating our marriage like a business deal, and instead of partners, we become adversaries. I am uncomfortable with the notion of entering into a marriage with the prospect of Divorce already looming largely in the horizon. This step is by itself already slowly chipping away our marriage before it is started, and i think that because we are preparing for it, even putting it in writing and signing for it, then a divorce is more likely to happen.

As a filipina, I put foremost priority in our future family and remaining intact, for better or for worse, and I have no motivation whatsoever to divorce from him so I can get the money, as most men would like to believe. It is an insult for me, and as much as we love each other, I am willing to turn down the marriage proposal because I feel that the marriage won't work. I've voiced this concern to him but he cannot also reconcile the fear of being left alone in the future, with me robbing him off his money and children.

I feel like I am preparing myself for marriage and he is preparing himself for a divorce.

We both love each other but have such differing views, how can we reconcile?

 

on January 15, 2014 0 likes

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Merry, hello!  Welcome.

You raise a very serious issue here.  A real world issue.  A very important issue for all of us as Christians.  Let me thank you for that.  Sadly, in my short time here, I see a lot of what I term very giggly and semingly so-so serious Forum topics initiated here but then not really treated either so truly seriously by the topic initiator, certainly not by many who then add their two cents (or more) of thinking in the subsequent thread comments.  The foundational topic is indeed serious; however, the follow up thread comments are often throwaway, not so serious, odd, unhelpful or even, ludicrous.

I am not really sure how that sort of Forum behavior is what one Christian brother or sister offers another.

As to your specific situation, I wish I knew French laws, customs, etc. better.  In some ways, as this is something that either will or will not be done under French law, well, it can be difficult for those of us outside that culture (and wholly unaware of French family law) to comment.   Perhaps there are peculiarities to French law (as regards marriages, the family, divorces) that one does not find in British, Canadian, or US law?  Probably so.

All I ask for you to consider is that you take great care with the comments that will follow what you have started with this (very good, very relevant) topic.  Having only been active here for the past few weeks, I am very dismayed at what I will call an overall all too often low level of Christian discourse here.   I mean that sincerely.   In these last four weeks, I have viewed some others, like you, coming here with very real life and very sincere questions/issues/topics, only to have quite  number of Forum members (who post regularly) not treat the topic and those asking with what I would call maturity - the maturity we are to have as Christians.

You are asking for wise thoughts/advice - on a very important topic.  Just be astute enough to be wary of those who may not be offering good or even Christian responses.

For now, before you receive direct responses,  you can look to a topic started by a Forum member named Jo.  She started a thread on this very same topic regarding prenuptual agreements about two weeks ago.   This can give you an idea for the kinds of responses you might receive.

If the link works, this is the CF site link to that thread:  https://www.christianfilipina.com/forum/thread.php?id=29756

on January 15, 2014 0 likes

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welcome to cf M.  i feel you.  check on:

 

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/prenup.asp

 

it might enlighten you. who knows, after several years he could change his mind and be generous.  trust is earned.

Pray and ask guidance from The Lord.

 

 

on January 15, 2014 0 likes

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Hi Merry,

Welcome to Cf!

I think this is the third time I see a thread on Prenuptial Agreement. In all those threads, I can't remember I commented, 'coz I honestly don't know what to do if that will happen to me. Now, I get it from you that Prenup is like a preparation for Divorce...

I am also asking myself, is prenup a red flag? I actaully don't know...I am trying to put myself in a situation that, there on the table is the paper containing the prenup agreement, my bf sitting infront of me waiting for me to sign...how would I feel? One thing I know about marriage is a union of everything (body, soul and spirit). Everything must be disclosed before marriage.

Now, I came up with this answers:

If he is single and I am the first wife, I will not sign the prenup...what you have tioled from the start will become ours and for our future kids.

If he is devorce/widow and have kids, i'll sign the prenup...his previous family deserves what he have had acquired. I am willing to start with nothing on our bank account, start saving for both of us and the future kids.

I hope that could be fair/reasonable!

on January 15, 2014 0 likes

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Hello. Im against prenup also. Ppl were giving worldly advice... but not godly wisdom in my post... I thought I was the only pinay who is against it... I will run away if he is initiating it... few men here said if youre against it... you must just be interested with his assets or coz pinays cant be trusted, whoooa... if pinays cant be trusted why would they want to marry one of us eh... anyways... below is written by a Christian lawyer who isnt into prenup. 

 

Are you a joyful bride-to-be? An eager (or nervous!) groom? Perhaps you have a son or daughter getting married this summer? Perhaps a beloved grandchild?  Or maybe a lifelong friend?  So many of us have a special acquaintance or family member ready to "tie the knot" in a beautiful marriage ceremony of thrilling romance and holy commitment this year. So what does any of this have to do with the law? Why am I raising the subject of weddings in my Christian legal column?

 

I'm writing to brides and grooms and those close to them because I want to encourage you to build the strongest possible marriage from the beginning, a marriage built on the solid foundation of God and His Word.  And I'm writing because I want to encourage you not to weaken or undermine that sacred foundation by relying on destructive legal "worldly wisdom" that commonly advises you not to get married without first entering a pre-nuptial agreement. 

 

A pre-nuptial agreement (informally called a "pre-nup") is a legal contract between a husband and a wife. It spells out in excruciating detail who owns what property, who has what legal rights, and exactly what happens if the couple gets separated or divorced. But is a binding and enforceable legal contract between husband and wife really consistent with God's plan for Christian marriage?

 

In an era of frequent marital break-ups and complex family structures, our cynical culture and most secular lawyers portray anyone getting married without a pre-nup as either foolish or naive. Before the wedding day, we are warned, wise couples should agree in writing what will happen if and when the marriage dissolves. But is there something wrong with this pessimistic advice? Should Christians begin their sacred marriage relationship as if it were just another business deal? Is it healthy for a husband and wife to be forced into negotiating against one another as legal adversaries, each with their own attorneys, in the days or weeks before they are joined as "one flesh" in the eyes of God? 

 

As a Christian lawyer, I believe pre-nuptial agreements tend to undermine the marriage relationship, putting the sacred covenant on shaky ground from the beginning. God calls husband and wife to be unified - to live as one, to share freely, to trust and honor and love each other in every way. But the very process of creating and executing a pre-nup glorifies a contrary perspective, one that is destructive and disruptive to the marriage.  The whole psychology of pre-nuptial agreements encourages each spouse to think of herself or himself as separate from the other, to be suspicious of the other, and to hold on tightly to "what's yours" and keep it from the other!  It's the opposite of unity! 

 

I know my thoughts on pre-nups run contrary to what most lawyers would consider "correct" legal thinking.  Certainly my perspective does not fit the conventional model of standard secular legal counsel for engaged couples.  But as a Christian lawyer I have no choice but to look at the legal questions we face from a biblical Christian viewpoint. I answer to a higher authority, and that authority says, "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh." (Genesis 2:24 NRSV)

 

How committed to each other should a Christian husband and wife be?  Should they be 50% committed?  70% committed?  Is a 90% commitment enough?  Isn't the answer 100%?  When God teaches us about marriage, when he uses those words "one flesh," it sounds to me like God intends for husbands and wives to be 100% committed to each other.  But the existence of a pre-nup sets the husband and wife at odds with each other.  It's like saying to your beloved future spouse, "Honey, let's agree up front that we aren't necessarily 100% committed to each other."  And that's why I'm very reluctant to endorse the use of pre-nuptial agreements.  To me, they just don't seem consistent with God's design for Christian marriage.

 

Lawyers could probably think up a thousand different situations where cold logic and a secular perspective might dictate that the spouses "need" a pre-nuptial agreement.  But under God's plan, what either spouse has "going in" doesn't really matter because everything belongs fully to both spouses once they're married.  If either spouse feels they can't freely give everything to the other, then, quite frankly, I would humbly suggest they need to seriously and prayerfully reconsider going through with the marriage vows. 

 

With wedding season still in full swing, let me urge you, engaged couples, to focus on building lasting oneness between you, as you both seek to serve and honor Christ in your upcoming marriage. And for those with friends and loved ones about to be married, let me beg you to do your part to encourage that kind of Christian unity and help the couple resist secular pressure to buy into "pre-nup propaganda"! 

 

I pray God's blessings on my brothers and sisters about to enter the joy and richness of Christian marriage.  I know marriage won't always be easy, but you will never regret beginning this precious journey together on the unshakable foundation of Jesus Christ and His Word. So please, think twice before you say "I do" to a pre-nup!

on January 15, 2014 1 likes

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Just thought about this now. One way to get married without a prenup probably and also give peace of mind to both the man and woman is since, we are talking about conjugal property or the property brought into marriage, why don't he transfer his assets into the marriage bit by bit? That way, if he is afraid of losing most of his assets in a bad marriage and divorce, transferring the assets slowly will protect most of his assets from a bad divorce and probably be just as good as a prenup! Say, transfer 10% of your assets in the marriage at the start. As trust is earned thru the years, you can transfer more assets into the marriage! I am not sure about this but, consult a lawyer to make sure it is feasible as an alternative. That way, both of you can enter marriage with peace of mind. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My french bofriend of 2 years had asked my hand for marriage. We both love each other, both in our 30's, single, stable and ready for having a family together.


Although we do not need to get married to be together, which we both like very much to happen for the rest of our lives, we choose to anyway because I primarily want to, and for him, he cannot have me legally stay here in France without this.

However, there's a hitch, he wants a prenup and I don't. Here's why we differ.

He is French and has considerably more assets than me. In France, more than half of the marriages end up in Divorce. In most divorce cases, it is usually the woman who initiates it. His mother left him and his father when he was 9 years old. More to that, his parents are now happily with other people, and yet not married still, even after retirement...

On my part, I come from Philippines, the only country left which doesn't have a divorce. In the absence of divorce, people who need to be separated either get annulments or just separate without the legalities, but there is no option for remarriage under this. However, only 1.0% of our population identified themselves as separated. My parents had celebrated 30 years of happy marriage, and I've witnessed the rocky slopes and the times when my mother wanted to live, but didn't. This worked out ultimately for all of family in the end.

Coming from such different backgrounds, we need to compromise. But I hesitate to enter discussions with french lawyers about which percentage of the assets he can retain in case we get divorced. First, i will not be represented here, coming from a country with no divorce laws.

But more importantly, my primary reason for not agreeing to all of this is becuase of it's potential to damage our marraige even before it began.I fear treating our marriage like a business deal, and instead of partners, we become adversaries. I am uncomfortable with the notion of entering into a marriage with the prospect of Divorce already looming largely in the horizon. This step is by itself already slowly chipping away our marriage before it is started, and i think that because we are preparing for it, even putting it in writing and signing for it, then a divorce is more likely to happen.

As a filipina, I put foremost priority in our future family and remaining intact, for better or for worse, and I have no motivation whatsoever to divorce from him so I can get the money, as most men would like to believe. It is an insult for me, and as much as we love each other, I am willing to turn down the marriage proposal because I feel that the marriage won't work. I've voiced this concern to him but he cannot also reconcile the fear of being left alone in the future, with me robbing him off his money and children.

I feel like I am preparing myself for marriage and he is preparing himself for a divorce.

We both love each other but have such differing views, how can we reconcile?

 


 

on January 15, 2014 0 likes

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There are many cases here:

If the man or woman has no assets, there is no need for PreNup. 

If both man and woman are true Christians, there is no need for PreNup. 

The need for PreNup arises when the man (or woman) has substantial assets before the marriage.  The problem is when their partner decides that those assets should be shared when a marriage dissolves.  Now, a true Christian spouse would not try to lay claim to those assets in the event of marriage dissolution, and this includes even if they feel they have been wronged.

People in the middle of divorce are usually hurt, be it actual or perceived, and hurt people usually try to retaliate.  And one way to retaliate is lay claim to the other person's assets.  It gets messy.

Now interestingly, a true Christian man would give whatever the spouse wanted.  This is not easy to do in our material world.  Yes she would think she was way ahead, but she would receive her judgement on the Last Day. 

Take care and God Bless!

 

on January 16, 2014 1 likes

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In a perfect world, there would be no need for a prenup. And just because someone claims they are Christian, does not mean that they really are! A true Christian man or woman would not take any action to deceive and take advantage of a friend, special someone or better half. In real life though, it can happen. I met someone who I was considering to be my wife in Hongkong in 2001, she said she was a Christian, belonged to a Christian church and seemed the perfect Christian woman. One day, she told me her employer was abusing her to the point of not paying her salaries and even took her passport so that, she cannot leave Hongkong! Now, she did not ask me directly for money but, any decent human being probably will have sympathy and give her some assistance. So, I send her some money, $300 to be exact to help her because I sincerely, believed she was in effect, destitute. We remained friends and like 2 years after, she confessed to me on her own that she scammed me! So, everything she told me about her employer was a big, fat lie! I told her I forgave her but, cannot continue corresponding with her! Morale of the story, no matter how much you try and screen people and hope they will be true to you, there are no guarantees. Only God knows what is in a person's heart. So, I can see the reason why some would want a prenup as well as others not wanting a prenup! If only everyone was sincere and honest, there would be no problems right?

Peter said:

There are many cases here:

If the man or woman has no assets, there is no need for PreNup. 

If both man and woman are true Christians, there is no need for PreNup. 

The need for PreNup arises when the man (or woman) has substantial assets before the marriage.  The problem is when their partner decides that those assets should be shared when a marriage dissolves.  Now, a true Christian spouse would not try to lay claim to those assets in the event of marriage dissolution, and this includes even if they feel they have been wronged.

People in the middle of divorce are usually hurt, be it actual or perceived, and hurt people usually try to retaliate.  And one way to retaliate is lay claim to the other person's assets.  It gets messy.

Now interestingly, a true Christian man would give whatever the spouse wanted.  This is not easy to do in our material world.  Yes she would think she was way ahead, but she would receive her judgement on the Last Day. 

Take care and God Bless!

 


 

on January 16, 2014 1 likes

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I wouldn't know coz I've never been into it. But this question alarms me, what if i would be in your shoe...

 

I am sure there are some legal circumstances in which a prenuptial agreement is mandated by law or by insurance policies, say in the case of a widow who remarries and who has minor children from her first marriage receiving an ongoing inheritance.

The typical arrangement of a prenuptial agreement, however, is completely outside the Christian vision of marriage. Here’s why.

First of all, a prenuptial agreement assumes a contractual rather than a covenantal view of marriage. It assumes there are two “partners” in the marriage, each protecting his or her interests and resources.

A Christian marriage, however, is a one-flesh union. What is true of the one is true of the other. A prenuptial agreement in a Christian marriage makes about as much sense as a legal contract between one’s mouth and one’s stomach, in case of a refusal to provide nutrients.  The Apostle tells us: “No man hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church” (Eph 5:29).

This one-flesh union is in view in the traditional Christian vows, “with all my worldly goods I thee endow.”

A prenuptial agreement also presupposes divorce. Divorce is a regrettable future possibility, in this scenario, but it is a possibility. A couple that begins preparing for the possibilityof divorce is headed toward it. Why not have the couple sign a legal document with arrangements made for the children in the case that she murders him? We wouldn’t think to do so because murder is, or ought to be, unthinkable for a couple preparing for marriage. Sadly, divorce is all too thinkable, even for those marrying in Christian churches.

This couple is not yet ready to marry, to give themselves to one another completely. If the future groom can’t trust his bride with his money, how can he trust her with his life, his family, his children, his future?...

 

May the Sovereign Lord change the heart of your said boyfriend and be reconciled, in JESUS NAME!...

on January 16, 2014 0 likes

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There have been cases of the wife getting a new bf, then suing for divorce and getting a part of previously acquired assets.  It is not right, but it happens.  The courts will generally not award this, but better to not even have an argument about it.  I would not take advantage of anyone, but I also do not want to be take advantage of.  How to ensure this?  Answer: impossible except to get it in writing.  Take care and God Bless!

on January 16, 2014 1 likes

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Peter said:

There have been cases of the wife getting a new bf, then suing for divorce and getting a part of previously acquired assets.  It is not right, but it happens.  The courts will generally not award this, but better to not even have an argument about it.  I would not take advantage of anyone, but I also do not want to be take advantage of.  How to ensure this?  Answer: impossible except to get it in writing.  Take care and God Bless!


Peter,

 

your comments are correct. and your previous post I agree with also, but I do not accept that Christians do not need a pre-nup.

There are a number of  times when a pre-nup is needed.

1. When either party has substantial previously aquired assets.

2. When one party is much older, maybe closer to retirement.

3. When one party has existing or continuing obligations brought with them For example, children who may have a reasonable expectation for something in a Will; or a family in Phils that has a reasonable expectation that the woman will continue to provide some support.

 Regarding the OP statements:

1. A prenuptial can have a life, a term, and then needs review later.

2. As to anyone feeling threatened by a prenuptial, western lawyers provide advivce to the client and will answer the questins posed. He can pay for it as well.

3. It is not a red flag or anything to be concerned about. It is life it is reality.

4. That reality requires fairness from both sides.

on January 16, 2014 1 likes

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jo said:

Hello. Im against prenup also. Ppl were giving worldly advice... but not godly wisdom in my post... I thought I was the only pinay who is against it... I will run away if he is initiating it... few men here said if youre against it... you must just be interested with his assets or coz pinays cant be trusted, whoooa... if pinays cant be trusted why would they want to marry one of us eh... anyways... below is written by a Christian lawyer who isnt into prenup. 

 

Are you a joyful bride-to-be? An eager (or nervous!) groom? Perhaps you have a son or daughter getting married this summer? Perhaps a beloved grandchild?  Or maybe a lifelong friend?  So many of us have a special acquaintance or family member ready to "tie the knot" in a beautiful marriage ceremony of thrilling romance and holy commitment this year. So what does any of this have to do with the law? Why am I raising the subject of weddings in my Christian legal column?

 

I'm writing to brides and grooms and those close to them because I want to encourage you to build the strongest possible marriage from the beginning, a marriage built on the solid foundation of God and His Word.  And I'm writing because I want to encourage you not to weaken or undermine that sacred foundation by relying on destructive legal "worldly wisdom" that commonly advises you not to get married without first entering a pre-nuptial agreement. 

 

A pre-nuptial agreement (informally called a "pre-nup") is a legal contract between a husband and a wife. It spells out in excruciating detail who owns what property, who has what legal rights, and exactly what happens if the couple gets separated or divorced. But is a binding and enforceable legal contract between husband and wife really consistent with God's plan for Christian marriage?

 

In an era of frequent marital break-ups and complex family structures, our cynical culture and most secular lawyers portray anyone getting married without a pre-nup as either foolish or naive. Before the wedding day, we are warned, wise couples should agree in writing what will happen if and when the marriage dissolves. But is there something wrong with this pessimistic advice? Should Christians begin their sacred marriage relationship as if it were just another business deal? Is it healthy for a husband and wife to be forced into negotiating against one another as legal adversaries, each with their own attorneys, in the days or weeks before they are joined as "one flesh" in the eyes of God? 

 

As a Christian lawyer, I believe pre-nuptial agreements tend to undermine the marriage relationship, putting the sacred covenant on shaky ground from the beginning. God calls husband and wife to be unified - to live as one, to share freely, to trust and honor and love each other in every way. But the very process of creating and executing a pre-nup glorifies a contrary perspective, one that is destructive and disruptive to the marriage.  The whole psychology of pre-nuptial agreements encourages each spouse to think of herself or himself as separate from the other, to be suspicious of the other, and to hold on tightly to "what's yours" and keep it from the other!  It's the opposite of unity! 

 

I know my thoughts on pre-nups run contrary to what most lawyers would consider "correct" legal thinking.  Certainly my perspective does not fit the conventional model of standard secular legal counsel for engaged couples.  But as a Christian lawyer I have no choice but to look at the legal questions we face from a biblical Christian viewpoint. I answer to a higher authority, and that authority says, "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh." (Genesis 2:24 NRSV)

 

How committed to each other should a Christian husband and wife be?  Should they be 50% committed?  70% committed?  Is a 90% commitment enough?  Isn't the answer 100%?  When God teaches us about marriage, when he uses those words "one flesh," it sounds to me like God intends for husbands and wives to be 100% committed to each other.  But the existence of a pre-nup sets the husband and wife at odds with each other.  It's like saying to your beloved future spouse, "Honey, let's agree up front that we aren't necessarily 100% committed to each other."  And that's why I'm very reluctant to endorse the use of pre-nuptial agreements.  To me, they just don't seem consistent with God's design for Christian marriage.

 

Lawyers could probably think up a thousand different situations where cold logic and a secular perspective might dictate that the spouses "need" a pre-nuptial agreement.  But under God's plan, what either spouse has "going in" doesn't really matter because everything belongs fully to both spouses once they're married.  If either spouse feels they can't freely give everything to the other, then, quite frankly, I would humbly suggest they need to seriously and prayerfully reconsider going through with the marriage vows. 

 

With wedding season still in full swing, let me urge you, engaged couples, to focus on building lasting oneness between you, as you both seek to serve and honor Christ in your upcoming marriage. And for those with friends and loved ones about to be married, let me beg you to do your part to encourage that kind of Christian unity and help the couple resist secular pressure to buy into "pre-nup propaganda"! 

 

I pray God's blessings on my brothers and sisters about to enter the joy and richness of Christian marriage.  I know marriage won't always be easy, but you will never regret beginning this precious journey together on the unshakable foundation of Jesus Christ and His Word. So please, think twice before you say "I do" to a pre-nup!


I am also a Christian and also a lawyer and part of my practice is Family Law.

I do not agree with you that it is a question of trusting pinays. It is a question of trust and the local law. Things change. People change.

The laws in western countries are quite savage at times about assets in divorce. The division can be very unfair upon pre-existing assets. That is a fact. It needs to be dealt with.

I recommend to all my clients:

1. What is yours before is yours after.

2. What you build together is jointly yours.

To suggest that Christians should ignore the fundamental principle "render unto Caesar what is Caesars..." is advice that in this country would have you before the legal practice board, looking closely at whether you were fit to practice without supervision.

People see lawyers, doctors, priests for different reasons. It is not the job of a lawyer to say "how it should be" but rather to deal with "how it is". There is no place for religion to displace the laws of a country. That is a foolish road. People can change and do change. No one goes into a union or a partnership expecting it to fail, that would be extremely foolish, but all should go into a marriage with eyes wide open.

My Christianity infuses my thinking and ethics. However it does not mandate that I give advice that is legally indefensible in this modern world.

A man who has pre-aquired assets or existing obligations  is entitled to protect the assets and the persons who the obligations are owed to. So also a woman.

Indeed a prenup can even set out how much money to send to the wife's family/parents, if they are poor, so there is no misunderstanding.

Prenups usually have a life or term so they need to be reviewed form time to time.

Prenups also deal with future children and so on. Indeed the courts in this Country will set them aside oif the circumstances change such as unemployment healthn and children, if it is perceived they are grossly unfair in the changed circumstances.

For those who both start with nothing, a pre-nup is not really needed. But it is when one has much more than the other or is closer to retirement than the other or who has existing family obligations.

on January 16, 2014 2 likes

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Hi Kevin, very reasonable and sound points from a legal standpoint.  But one thing.  Jesus taught to turn the other cheek.  And He taught by example.  His earthly life was taken from Him, in a horribly painful way, by the very people He came to offer eternal life to.  If that is not being wronged, then I don't know what is.  But He didn't complain.  And He let them do whatever it was they wanted, and did NOT fight back in any way, shape or form. Not even a wimper of protest.  Think about it.

Not easy to follow His example.

Take care and God Bless!

on January 16, 2014 0 likes

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Peter said:

Hi Kevin, very reasonable and sound points from a legal standpoint.  But one thing.  Jesus taught to turn the other cheek.  And He taught by example.  His earthly life was taken from Him, in a horribly painful way, by the very people He came to offer eternal life to.  If that is not being wronged, then I don't know what is.  But He didn't complain.  And He let them do whatever it was they wanted, and did NOT fight back in any way, shape or form. Not even a wimper of protest.  Think about it.

Not easy to follow His example.

Take care and God Bless!


Agreed but he also gave us the parable of the talents and the refrain render unto Caesar....

on January 16, 2014 1 likes

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Hi Kevin.  Yes, we are in agreement.  We all have locks on our windows and doors, right? These are the things we do to protect us from evil people.  You wouldn't need a PreNup with a true Chistrian, but impossible to be sure of that.  I would probably have a PreNup, then if she dealt with me fairly, I would of course do likewise.  As I said before, I don't want to take advantage of anyone, and I also don't want to be taken advantage of.

But I also realize that even that is away from the Christian ideal, which I already explained in my previous post.

Kevin said:

Agreed but he also gave us the parable of the talents and the refrain render unto Caesar....


 

on January 16, 2014 0 likes

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